{"content":{"sharePage":{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"33899956","dateCreated":"1297220736","smartDate":"Feb 8, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"ritarr","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ritarr","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1233888181\/ritarr-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/ab372-572.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/33899956"},"dateDigested":1532175017,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Impacts","description":"What were the reason\/s for the failures of these early ventures? What role did Aboriginal resistance play?","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"37175992","body":"How does a nation recover from such destructive relationships & history with its original inhabitants?
\nWhat a question! Still today our nation is trying to recover from all the destruction caused by the early contact between Europeans and the Aboriginal inhabitants. One of the major focuses in today\u2019s society is on empowering our Indigenous peoples, striving for reconciliation, closing the gap between Indigenous and Non indigenous Australians and repairing damages to the lives of the original inhabitants such as returning land and apologizing for unforgivable acts such as the stolen generation.
\nHow does a nation recover? I\u2019m not sure they ever do, however; there is the extreme need for people to do all they can to try. Our nation is slowly beginning to take measures towards repairing damages resulting from the destructive relationships and history with the Aboriginal people. This is evident through Rudd\u2019s national apology in 2008, the many organizations working towards \u2018closing the gap\u2019 and acknowledging land rights and ownership.","dateCreated":"1302056684","smartDate":"Apr 5, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"20083043","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/20083043","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37182086","body":"I feel the early exploration ventures failed due to a combination of the Aboriginal resistance, the unfamiliar terrain and naivety on behalf of the explorers. You get the feeling there wasn't a huge amount of research done on the expeditions which was probably a sign of the times. It seems Grey was under the impression he could just sail in, make contact with land and assume control immediately. This type of approach was obviously met with strict opposition from the Aboriginal people who had already been there for a number years and had their own cultures and protocols in place. When some of the protocols were ignored or not adhered to, Aboriginal resistance grew which in turn resulted in more violence. Resistance grew stronger when the explorers tried to push further into the land and once again more violence erupted. The ignorance of the early explorers had an impact on future explorations with the same problems arising time and time again.
\n
\nQuestion: Do you think there would have been more peaceful contacts for later explorations if the original ventures had been approached differently?","dateCreated":"1302069856","smartDate":"Apr 5, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"eagor","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/eagor","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37325546","body":"The failure of these early ventures was the result of a culture clash, between Aboriginal peoples and setters. The assumption that Australia was Terra Nullius and therefore acceptable to claim as part of the British Empire, set the tone for European settlers to set foot on land with the belief they had the right to do so and the belief that their knowledge was superior and more valuable than that of Aboriginal culture. The early interactions between Aboriginals and Settlers demonstrates how the Europeans saw themselves as superior and treated Aboriginals as novelties and were bemused by attempts by the Aboriginal people at learning the English language and their curiosity of European weapons (Clement, 1991). Communication was the crux of interactions between Settlers and Aboriginal people becoming aggressive. Settlers wrongly assumed their colonisation of Australia would run smoothly and the introduction of sheep and cattle would be accepted by Aboriginals. The introduction of sheep and cattle, in reality, affected the environment and the Aboriginal way of life negatively. Watering holes would have easily became depleted and contaminated by cattle. Plants and bulbs that made up part of the Aboriginal diet were destroyed and eaten by the large quantities of cattle and sheep. Relations would have become strained as the language and cultural barrier would have prevented this issue being resolved and yet the Aboriginal people had to do something to ensure their survival. This is where many incidents involving the killing of livestock by Aboriginals or Aboriginal peoples attempting to drive Europeans from their land. By retaliating through fatal measures the Europeans settlers gained a reputation that they were the enemy, also European ways of communication, eg body language, eye contact etc. were not always compatible with Aboriginal communication especially since each party was unfamiliar with the other and had no frame of reference.
\n
\nQuestion: Had genuine attempts been made at communication with Aboriginal peoples without White superiority contaminating the progress, would fatal interaction between Aboriginal people and Europeans been avoided?
\n
\nReference:
\nClement, C. (1991). Australia's North-West: A study of exploration, land policy and land aquisition, 1644-1884. PHD Thesis. Murdoch University, p.245-255. Retrieved from Blackboard.","dateCreated":"1302239734","smartDate":"Apr 7, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"emmaN1","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/emmaN1","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37327108","body":"Reasons behind the failures of early ventures I guess varies from place to place and those involved, but were any of these ventures considered to be \u2018actual\u2019 failures?
\nTasman\u2019s venture was officially about trade not colonization. As a result of what would have probably looked like the first signs of hostility to Tasman, it did seem that the initial aim for trade had indeed failed.
\nWhereas Dampier\u2019s first exploration was said to be essentially based on the need for food and water, but there was also a desire to meet with the Aboriginal people of this region. His quest was eventually successful however; upon his second return to the Kimberley region for the purpose of colonization, he failed due to a particular conflict.
\nThen there are cases like Grey and King, who both seem to be about how they held early attitudes of conquest and racial theories. Heavily influenced by earlier records of expeditions, particularly in relation to Aboriginal people of the Kimberley coast, Grey and King had by this stage become more prepared than those earlier explorers. In addition there was a greater emphasis of imperial approach; which meant that there was a greater increase in numbers and weapons. So, did Grey and King succeed in their ventures? Yes, to a point they did successfully survey new territory, however it seemed like a failure in regards to forming a amicable relationship between them and local Aboriginal people of the region.
\nI think that Aboriginal resistance over this particular period has played a huge part in giving early explorers reasons to believe they were of a higher race and within their knowing they were indeed conquerors.
\n
\nMy question is: Had those like Grey and King been influenced by the worldview we have today, would they have approached things differently?","dateCreated":"1302245262","smartDate":"Apr 7, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"Tessloan10","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Tessloan10","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37442622","body":"What were the reason\/s for the failures of these early ventures? What role did Aboriginal resistance play?
\nThe reasons for the failings of the early ventures attempting to establish settlements in the North West of Australia are various. One of the main reasons for failing was the unrelenting temperatures that the settlers were not accustomed to and this saw many die from sunstroke and dehydration. They also were unprepared for the lack of fresh water available to them and the difficulty involved in sourcing it. They had also not been aware of the coastline conditions and great difficulty dealing with the mangroves and the muddy terrain. There was also the trouble of once finding land suitable to unload the vessel, the terrain was rocky and thick with scrub and had to be crossed in order to find suitable land for the stock to feed on. The settlers initially arrived with sheep which were soon found to be incompatible with the heat and died rapidly. From the readings I don\u2019t see that Aboriginal people played a great part in being able to prevent the settlers from fulfilling their plans. The initial contacts were mostly violence free and the Aboriginal peoples spears were no match for the white people\u2019s guns. I also feel that the Aboriginal people were rather intrigued and curious as to what the foreigners were up too.","dateCreated":"1302490471","smartDate":"Apr 10, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"jess78","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/jess78","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37442826","body":"Question-Given that the settlers such as those at Camden Habour had travelled long distances and were well prepared to stay,do you think they would have been easily detered by the natives they encountered?","dateCreated":"1302490786","smartDate":"Apr 10, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"jess78","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/jess78","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37443284","body":"Had genuine attempts been made at communication with Aboriginal peoples without White superiority contaminating the progress, would fatal interaction between Aboriginal people and Europeans been avoided?
\nI don\u2019t know that the settlers were interested in communication, like you said they felt they were inherently superior and that they had every right in there imperialistic capacity to be doing what they were there to do. Communication was near on impossible with the differing languages and also the white person\u2019s lack of understanding of the cultures they were dealing with. I honestly feel that these people thought nothing of fatal interactions as they were just in it for themselves.","dateCreated":"1302491550","smartDate":"Apr 10, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"jess78","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/jess78","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37447638","body":"In response to Tess\u2019 question: Had those like Grey and King been influenced by the worldview we have today, would they have approached things differently?
\nI would like to hope that had Grey and King had more of a worldview they would have acted differently and with more peaceful outcomes, however just the fact that they had been sent to claim territory for the British Empire may have tainted their perceptions anyway. Although today we no longer travel to \u2018conquer\u2019 faraway lands, we do (as part of the Westernised world) impose ourselves onto \u2018Others\u2019 as far as we can rationalise. The so called \u2018War on Terror\u2019 serves as an example of how even today, despite our worldviews, we send in our troops for \u2018honourable\u2019 intentions such as saving democracy. Each day countless innocent civilians are killed in the crossfire and yet we continue with our presence. So even a world view can be warped if it doesn\u2019t match our current situation, as we can argue the justification of our actions because we have become so good at convincing ourselves that we as a Nation and as part of the Western world, have all the answers.","dateCreated":"1302505968","smartDate":"Apr 11, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"emmaN1","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/emmaN1","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37448144","body":"In response to PT\u2019s question \u2018\u2018\u2026Is there an answer here or are we obliged to accept that this struggle will go on for many years to come?
\n
\nI find it interesting that PT has highlighted that Land rights today signifies Aboriginal resistance. I honestly haven\u2019t thought about land rights like this up until now. Such resistance you would think holds a place in the past, but clearly this is not the case. Is there an answer to such resistance? I don\u2019t know. But I would like to think that as Australian\u2019s (both Non-Indigenous and Indigenous) we can somehow form a stable agreement in relations to land rights, because we as a nation are no longer bounded by attitudes of racial hierarchy which has allowed for resistance to grow in the first place. Would it just be better to wipe the Australian past clean and start (from the very beginning) all over again or does Australia as a nation legally sign over this country to the Australia\u2019s original occupants? Even such a question as this, is very hard to comprehend let alone attempt to consider. So, are we obliged to accept that this struggle will go on for many years to come? I hope not. I don\u2019t think there should be an acceptance of such a struggle, as I feel this could affect the process of an amicable reconciliation in the future.","dateCreated":"1302507752","smartDate":"Apr 11, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"Tessloan10","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Tessloan10","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37511744","body":"In response to 20103802 Question: The struggle for land rights goes on today indicating that the aboriginal resistance movement is alive and well. Is there an answer here or are we obliged to accept that this struggle will go on for many years to come?
\n
\nI think one of the answers is just to continue the slow reconciliation process. We need more white Australians to accept that there were some serious wrong doings in our history and until these wrong doings are recognised by more of today's society it will continue to be an issue. For indigenous Australians it will was always be a struggling issue because of the impact it had on so many lives. It would take a long time to just forget about it.","dateCreated":"1302575588","smartDate":"Apr 11, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"eagor","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/eagor","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37603942","body":"The reasoning behind the high failure rate for these early ventures seems endless. Ranging from harsh weather patterns \u201cBut the climate was a greater threat than the blacks\u201d (Pg 91, Richards) to certain members of the group refusing to help in the initial stages, (Pg 88, Richards) a death toll for livestock topping the hundreds, \u201cSholl estimated that the sheep toll numbered below 1,000.\u201d (Pg 251, Clement) and a volatile country of stony, rocky surfaces, making cultivating and livestock placement extremely more difficult then the brochures had the settlers believe. \u201cMajor newspapers\u2026.. continued promoting it even as these people realised their folly\u201d (Pg 254, Clement) Geographical and conservational knowledge also seemed to add to the settlers woes and I believe the Aboriginal resistance would have played a major factor. Throughout the readings there were many experiences recorded of the aborigines hampering vessels \u201cOne had swum out, lifted the anchor and begun dragging the boat away\u201d (Pg 152 Richards), throwing spears, countless times of watching\/ stalking from a distance. I think it should not be underestimated the fear and doubt the first peoples had on these settlers. The Aborigines were moving around their country, fit and healthy \u201cfine, tall fellows\u201d (Pg 90 Richards), with an unquestionable knowledge of their food sources, their water sources, and their people. The unequipped settlers trying to deal with the difficulties previously mentioned would have struggled to cope with this added stress.","dateCreated":"1302706364","smartDate":"Apr 13, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"samhesel","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/samhesel","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37606912","body":"How does a nation recover from such destructive relationships & history with its original inhabitants?
\n
\nAlthough I believe this is one of hardest questions and issues Australia will be faced with for many generations, I am of the strong belief that education through our children is an integral key. We recently discussed in our tutorial how overwhelming the Indigenous studies course can be in terms of the influx of information presented each week. Past government discrimination acts, the violence that has taken place, the eradication of culture, language and identity, intergenerational trauma through the stolen generations period, the fractured relationship Australia\u2019s first peoples have with the justice system and police states, health social and economic decline that stems from these areas. For grown adults willing to listen and acknowledge these faults it is a challenge. Therefore compulsory, informative indigenous studies units starting from pre-school to primary, secondary, tertiary all the way through to training courses prior to full time employment in relative occupations i.e.- police force, nursing, teaching, paramedics etc. is needed. The general Australian public will then become more aware of the underlying issues our first people are facing each day. This in hope will make the recovery process more realistic.
\n
\n My question.
\nWho do you believe held more fear in these initial campaigns by the settlers in the Nth West. The Indigenous or Non-indigenous? I believe the fear factor for both parties would have been unfathomable, the damage guns did to the Aborigines was fatal, life taking and soul destroying but the spiralling effect of on the grieving families not to be underestimated along with the theft of their countries\u2026... For the non-Indigenous, unknown country, climate, surroundings with the constant worry of \u201cnatives\u201d threatening you, your family and livestock would have also been harrowing\u2026","dateCreated":"1302708431","smartDate":"Apr 13, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"samhesel","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/samhesel","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}}],"more":11}]},{"id":"33899916","dateCreated":"1297220686","smartDate":"Feb 8, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"ritarr","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ritarr","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1233888181\/ritarr-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/ab372-572.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/33899916"},"dateDigested":1532175019,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Attitudes","description":"It is also important to try and develop an understanding of the attitudes the major protagonists had towards each other. What impact did these early encounters have on people\u2019s lives? Were such attitudes universal on both sides of the racial divide? Was there room for accommodation or was conflict inevitable?
\n
\nInclude a question\/issue for other students to respond to in the discussion.
\n
\nRespond to a question posed by another student in their journal entry.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"36940124","body":"The early expeditions that took place in the Kimberley were apart of the European explorer's attempts to find new land and new resources for trade and ultimately expand the British Empire. Their attitude was simple, to further their colonisation and continue the prosperity of white society. As a result, there were numerous encounters with the local Indigenous people who had already inhabited the land for many years. These encounters impacted the lives of those involved in many ways. For the local people it would have been a frightening experience seeing for the first time soldiers dressed in uniforms with modern weapons at the ready. These early clashes are explained in Dampier's first version of contact where he says "the men at our first coming ashore, threatened us with their Lances and Swords: but they were frightened by firing one gun." Relationships and attitudes seemed to change slightly as further encounters took place, with goods being exchanged between the parties at one stage. However violent clashes were inevitable as the explorers moved further into the land with more troops. This is reflective of the strong sense of ownership the local people had for their land, fighting tooth and nail to protect. It is also a strong reflection of the intruder's feeling of superiority over the local inhabitants. There were some subtle changes in attitudes, for example Grey illustrates this in his account of one particular battle where he shoots an Aboriginal 'warrior' dead. He says "but for the sight of the unhappy being who lay on the ground before me I could have thought that the whole affair had been a horrid dream." A far cry from the fearless competitor he was made out to be. These early clashes were a sign of times to come where violence was a major recurring factor in the occupation of land by white settlers. I don't think there would ever have been room for accommodation at the time as both parties came from such different backgrounds. Along with the settler's strong mindset that they well within their rights to take such land, there was always going to be conflict along the way.
\n
\nQuestion: In what ways could either party have approached the encounters differently?","dateCreated":"1301634102","smartDate":"Mar 31, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"eagor","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/eagor","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36940446","body":"Edwards (1991) recount of Grey\u2019s encounters with the Worrora people offers an insight into the internal conflicts faced by the early settlers. The context in which Grey is located centres around Grey as a dominant White male with a military background, the impact this has on this has on the Worrora people is related to Greys desire to be perceived as a strong male who won\u2019t back down and surrender, especially to \u2018savages\u2019 who are seen as similar to a pack of animals. Grey is internally conflicted when he fatally injures a young male from the Worrora tribe and begins to humanise his opponents and contemplates the tragedy of his death. This suggests the attitudes that Whites Australians had towards Aboriginals could not have been universal.
\nThe inability to communicate with the Worrora people would have contributed greatly to the fatal encounter, it is possibly through this realisation that Grey endeavoured to learn the language of the Swan River Aboriginals in an effort not to have history repeat. In hindsight it is perceivable this and similar encounters could have been avoided, however, due to the mechanisms which support the maintenance of the status quo, which requires the dominance of White people and therefore the dehumanisation of Aboriginal people the conflict became an inevitable outcome at that time. The label of White Devils became very apt.
\nQuestion: Is contemporary Australia still suffering the effects from the Early Settlers dehumanisation of Indigenous peoples?
\nEdwards, H. (1991) \u2018The Fatal Shot\u2019 in Kimberly: Dreaming to Diamonds, Hugh Edwards, Perth p21-29. Retrieved from Blackboard.","dateCreated":"1301635479","smartDate":"Mar 31, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"emmaN1","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/emmaN1","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36941914","body":"If you go by history \u2013 from different view points \u2013 it appears that there were some peaceful and some hostile initial transactions. It could be assumed that if initial dealings were hostile and violent, this would have had significant impact on the people involved and how they came to view each other. Tension would have been inevitable. First impressions would have been imperative if the intension was to arrive peacefully.
\nI think that the attitudes of the major protagonists must be considered without generalisation. Attitudes would not have been universal for either race \u2013 are they ever? I think the attitudes of Indigenous and non Indigenous people would have varied immensely depending on the circumstances of the settler\u2019s arrival and the mind set of the leaders on both sides. Differing views are clearly illustrated by Grey\u2019s journal notes which show some mutual respect (Edwards, 1991)and Battye\u2019s inclination to identify Aboriginal people as aggressive natives (1915).
\nMany communications would have been lost in translation in the beginning resulting in defensive tactics being use on both sides when perhaps they were not necessary. For example, a peaceful gesture from one side could be offensive to the other side and therefore received poorly etc\u2026 Settlers were experienced at their travels and had encountered many Indigenous peoples before so should have had a reasonable understanding of protocol.
\nI don\u2019t believe conflict was inevitable; that seems like a weak justification for all the violence that ensued and all the long lasting impacts of that.
\n
\nReference List
\nBattye, J.S. (1915). Excerpts from Story of Exploration. In the History of the North West of Australia. Perth: V.K Jones & Co, p. 55-76.
\nEdwards, H. (1991). The Fatal Shot. In Kimberley Dreaming to Diamonds. Perth:Hugh Edwards, p.21-29.
\n
\nMy question: If conflict was inevitable, did it resolve anything or just create more conflict?","dateCreated":"1301642520","smartDate":"Apr 1, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"jadedelaney","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/jadedelaney","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36942614","body":"Major protagonist\u2019s attitudes seem to be generally to same in regards to exploration. They initially came across as men looking for new features within a foreign country, searching for that something new that no-one else had yet discovered. Such motivation however, came at a cost that either left them exposed to absolute hardships or death. On some occasions I found it easy to perceive these men as obnoxious men, however I also found it hard to comprehend why they would endure such punishment for glory sakes. There were other moments of exploration that were just plain stupid, for example when King tried to stun a sea snake with a cannon ball instead it blew the creature to pieces (Horden,
\np.296).
\n
\nIt was easy for me to get caught up in the moment and judge these men for their errors of judgment in exploration, their perception of the country and the traditional people of this country. But I kind of have to be mindful that, these men were possibly young men a long way from home (Edwards, p.28) or could possibly be on these journeys due to family expectations.
\n
\nThat\u2019s not to say how they went about things were okay either, indeed most of their attitudes had impacted on those in their crew and those among Aboriginal people. I think that conflict was inevitable because I believe that both fields (Aboriginal and Europeans explorers) were responding the same way towards each other, they both felt doubt, fear and courage.
\n
\nQ: How would you response to this scenario.
\nIf you saw a group of men (Aboriginal or European) coming towards you, holding what seems to be some sort of weapon? Would you stay and have a nice chat or is a conflict inevitable here?
\n
\n
\nReference:
\nBattye, JS (1915). Excerpts from Story of Exploration. In the History of the North West of Australia. p.55-76
\nEdwards, H (1991). The Fatal Shot. In Kimberley Dreaming to Diamonds. Perth: Hugh Edwards, p.21-29
\nHorden, M (1997). Kimberley Coast in King of the Australian Coast. The Voyages of Phillip Park King in the Mermaid and Bathurst, Melbourne University . p.293-312
\nHorden, M (1989). Soldiers in Trouble. In Mariners are Warned. John Lort Stokes and HMS Beagle in Australia 1837-1843. Melbourne Unviesity Press, p.75-91","dateCreated":"1301647178","smartDate":"Apr 1, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"Tessloan10","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Tessloan10","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37000744","body":"Edwards' account of Grey's expedition reads like a 'Boys Own' ripping yarn. The Capetown soldier who panics in the face of the aboriginal warriors (who may well have been worried themselves as well)is made out to be a craven coward, while Grey himself comes across as an arrogant upper-class twit. According to Battye, the declared intention of the expedition, apart from discovering "another Amazon",was "to familiarise the natives with the British name and character". I suspect the 'natives' were a bit restless and resentful by that stage because these white 'visitors' had pretty much worn out their welcome. Hence conflict was inevitable.
\n
\nMy question is: Was Queen Victoria aware of all the battles that were being fought in her name?","dateCreated":"1301755180","smartDate":"Apr 2, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"PeteN","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/PeteN","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1301756613\/PeteN-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37000946","body":"Andrew M1 asks: Question: What actions might have been undertaken to change the violent nature of first contact?
\nAnswer: Any conscientious military person would have at least done adequate reconnaisance before embarking on such a big expedition in such inhospitable surroundings. Even today for example,we are constantly reminded of how severely weather conditions can alter the terrain overnight. It would also have been common sense (as well as common courtesy)to ascertain local customs and protocols before blundering into someone elses territory and expecting them to cowtow to you.","dateCreated":"1301755789","smartDate":"Apr 2, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"PeteN","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/PeteN","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1301756613\/PeteN-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37016026","body":"In response to 20103879's question - 'What can we do today to understand cultures that exist in Australia that are different to the mainstream?' - Although reaching this understanding would be complex and multi-levelled, I do think that two major contributors exist in the form of education and social dialogue.
\n
\nEducation in the sense of an unbiased history lesson - one which portrays both sides of the events and happenings - one which is wholly inclusive, not only of the opinions and interpretations, but also in accepting alternative ways and methods of interpreting history as equally valid as western traditional methods, ie. oral history.
\n
\nI think that changing the social dialogue is also key and education with that dialogue goes hand in hand. The more we are educated on our social history and the impacts that history has upon the present, the more equipped we will be to raise and converse about the issues openly. Getting the issues out on the table is the next step - not only to raise awareness but to get people heated and impassioned to act and do something about it.","dateCreated":"1301809980","smartDate":"Apr 2, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"Liv-S","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Liv-S","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37017122","body":"In response to 20103802's question:
\n
\nI think men like Grey were certainly following orders from a heirarchy which they had a deep respect for. I think they would have been excited about the prospect of discovering new land and there was surely a certain prestige attached to being an explorer.
\nIt does seem that unfortunately they were unprepared for the hardships of the task they were assigned but more unfortunately that they were not equipped with a knowledge of the local people, how to initiate contact peacefully and show appropriate respects. Whilst this may not have been possible on a comprehensive level, there definitely would have been experiences from other explorers who could have provided even a little information. Maybe this information was not considered important enough to share but it could well have helped someone like Grey who seemed to have some respect for the local people.
\nOf course their perogative would have been to conquer new lands, but with minimal knowledge of the country or it's people, they were destined to make epic mistakes.","dateCreated":"1301818996","smartDate":"Apr 3, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"jadedelaney","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/jadedelaney","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37046124","body":"In response to 20103879 Question - What can we do today to understand cultures that exist in Australia that are different to the mainstream? Are there any ways in which mainstream Australia is bigoted against other pockets in Australian society?
\nIn order for there to be understanding of \u2018Other\u2019 cultures within Australia there needs to be a desire to want to know or understand \u2018Other\u2019 cultures. On the whole we can see many examples of Australia embracing the various cultures that make up the community, the issues of accepting \u2018Other\u2019 cultures are when those cultures have been vilified or identified as a threat to the Australian Identity. The media has a lot to answer for as it is often one sided in its approach on reporting how other cultures are affecting our way of life. Common misconceptions of Muslims label them as extremists who want to blow us up or who wish to impose their way of life onto the rest of mainstream society, this is reproduced through \u2018the news\u2019. This has led to the reproduction of social discourse that labels Muslims as a threat to Australian identity and stereotypes all Muslims as the same. Aboriginal people also have a negative social stereotype to overcome and unfortunately some non-indigenous Australians believe it is the responsibility of the individual Aboriginal to prove the stereotype wrong and if they do they are labelled the exception. As the news is a controlled media it is the responsibility of the Individual to seek out balanced news reports and to critically analyse information given to them that impact their world view on \u2018Other cultures\u2019.","dateCreated":"1301887090","smartDate":"Apr 3, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"emmaN1","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/emmaN1","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37049564","body":"In response to Liv-S\u2019s question \u2018\u2026What do you think it was that prevented the British explorers from seeing it from this perspective?..\u2019
\n
\nI believe that British explorers did not see it this way because, for a start most had a firm belief that they were of a superior race. Such institutionalized attitudes made them go about exploring this country with a sole aim to be noticed as conquerors back home. Their quests were probably recognized as noble; deserving of prestigious accolades and this probably motivated them more, no matter what it cost. Had these British explorers been more inclined to be humble and accommodating, would there still have been a sense of defensiveness from Aboriginal people? Perhaps or perhaps not, I think that Aboriginal people would have still stood firm in defense. But would the question is; would the explorers have walked away in non-violent defeat? Probably not, as early attitudes of superiority meant that they strongly believed that their way was the right way.","dateCreated":"1301900061","smartDate":"Apr 3, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"Tessloan10","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Tessloan10","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37050224","body":"in response to Tessloan10 question How would you response to this scenario.
\nIf you saw a group of men (Aboriginal or European) coming towards you, holding what seems to be some sort of weapon? Would you stay and have a nice chat or is a conflict inevitable here?
\nIf I saw a group of men coming towards me with weapon in hand the initial reaction would be one of defence. In our current society it would be possible to read the body language of whoever is coming and react accordingly. Either by fighting back, running for cover or potentialy talking them out of what is to come. However back in those days, where the Indigenous people would never have seen anything like that coming towards them, initial reactions were always going to be hostile and conflict was inevitable.","dateCreated":"1301903062","smartDate":"Apr 4, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"eagor","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/eagor","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37059306","body":"Early encounters between the British and Aboriginal people varied (Edwards 1991, Battye 1915 & Horden 1997). On the most part the British explorers can be seen as being courageous men, willing and excited to discover land which could be deemed valuable by their country, and ultimately colonised under the Queens name. For the British, contact with the \u2018inhabitants\u2019 of the country was not on the list of priorities and thus encounters are often recorded but concealed under the greater emphasis on the achievements and struggles faced by the explorers (Edwards 1991, Battye 1915 & Horden 1997).For the Aboriginal people, these were often their first encounters with white people and with this came curiosity and cautiousness. Often, these initial encounters ended in violence. These early encounters served as the first impressions between the Indigenous and non indigenous which lay the foundations for future relations. These impressions however varied not only from situation to situation but person to person. For example, Grey took away a very different perspective then that of Ruston (Edwards 1991). I think the nature of colonisation as it occurred deems conflict inevitable however I don\u2019t believe that the very initial encounters needed to be.
\nDoes anyone know the details about Aboriginal contact with the Macassans? How did this differ from British initial contact?","dateCreated":"1301923187","smartDate":"Apr 4, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"MarciaFriend","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/MarciaFriend","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}}],"more":11}]},{"id":"33899862","dateCreated":"1297220595","smartDate":"Feb 8, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"ritarr","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ritarr","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1233888181\/ritarr-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/ab372-572.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/33899862"},"dateDigested":1532175020,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Jandamarra as History","description":"By now you will be familiar with the name Jandamarra as well as having a reasonable knowledge of the events and other personalities involved in his 'story'. However, the important question you have to answer is not so much where he lived, what he did and where he died, but rather what, if any, was his place in history?
\n
\nIn one of your readings Muecke (1992) questions why one text is produced rather than another? And in answering this question he suggests; \u201cTexts will be written or spoken, not only when something worthwhile happens, but in response to broader institutional or cultural demands for the event to be recorded for posterity, as well as for the achievement of current socio-political ends\u201d (p.62). In what ways does this claim explain the origins of the text produced by J S Battye that describes the relationship of the major protagonists to each other in the Jandamarra story? Keeping in mind its publication date, you are required to explain what you think were the broader late 19th century institutional or cultural demands shaping Battye's text.
\nThen using the same reasoning, what do you think is the socio-political motivation for Howard Pedersen's text on the same subject? Where do you think Pedersen would stand in your understanding of the different positions taken by protagonists in the History Wars?
\nInclude a question\/issue for other students to respond to in the discussion.
\n
\nRespond to a question posed by another student in their journal entry.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"36702378","body":"In response to the question raised by Tessloan10 - In your view, is Jandamarra\u2019s regime a form of rebellion or state of a defence and why? Has this view been influenced by those like Pederson or Battye?
\n
\nIn my opinion I would think Jandamarra's regime was both a form of rebellion and defense. Rebellion against the sudden invasion of the white man who were suddenly claiming land that was not theirs and throwing their weight around at any cost including life. Additionally it was a defense, a means to protecting their extremely important family and kinships and all that their people had such as land and culture. My view is not influenced by the texts I have read this week but mainly by the stories I have been told from Aboriginal elders who experienced similar hardships, trauma and loss as Jandamarra but at a later date. Perhaps my opinion is bias then as it is heavily influenced by the opinions, views and accounts told by Aboriginal people who were present at the times of the stolen generation or Sturt Creek Massacre and directly affected by such events. I have not had conversations with white men who were at the time of similar events.","dateCreated":"1301361097","smartDate":"Mar 28, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"20083043","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/20083043","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36709348","body":"Jandamarra\u2019s place in history is one of undeniable individuality, heroism and represents a time of vast changes in Western Australia\u2019s history. Jandamarra\u2019s life was divided between two worlds of which he eventually had to choose between, on the day that he made the decision to kill Richardson and free the prisoners at Lillimooloora he made a clear commitment of his loyalty to his Bunuba people, of which he had been an outcast for breaking traditional laws. This defines his place in history and poses the question as to whether we would know his name and story today, had he chosen not to side with his countrymen at this point and cause a rebellion of such lengthy and successful dimensions.
\nWhen analysing the broader socio-political and cultural demands of Battye\u2019s 1915 text, the reasoning and description of protagonist characters such as Blythe is recorded in a sense of him being a heroic explorer, developer and worthy pioneer. Battye describes how Blythe had been shot in the hand by Pigeon and was eventually paid a one hundred pound grant for his service to the Government. (Battye, 1915) However with that in mind, Howard Pederson\u2019s text tells the story from the perspective of the Indigenous people and his evidence based on oral history describes how Jandamarra had showed extreme mercy by not killing Blythe and instead shooting him in the hand. I feel his motivation was merely to tell the story and was not politically driven. And that he would stand very much opposed to Keith Windshuttle\u2019s views that oral histories are in fact not satisfactory evidence.
\nMy question- All of the names in these texts are street names in Derby, e.g. Blythe, Anderson McDonald and Richardson, this clearly shows that these men are perceived as the heroic settlers worthy of naming streets after. Do you think it would be possible to name a street after Jandamarra? Or would this be met by controversy?","dateCreated":"1301370464","smartDate":"Mar 28, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"jess78","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/jess78","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36709730","body":"In response to Eagor\u2019s question- What are your thoughts on Jandamarra, hero or villain, and why? My thoughts on Jandamarra are definitely that of a hero, as a leader, rebel, warrior and shaman, it cannot be denied that he was unique. Given the day and age that all of this occurred and the determination and disregard that the pastoralists displayed this was a massive effort of opposition that was undertaken.","dateCreated":"1301371258","smartDate":"Mar 28, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"jess78","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/jess78","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36711204","body":"\u201cTexts will be written or spoken, not only when something worthwhile happens, but in response to broader institutional or cultural demands for the event to be recorded for posterity, as well as for the achievement of current socio-political ends\u201d (Muecke, 1992, p. 62). This statement by Muecke can easily be related to our reading of Battye\u2019s text, which shows that land acquisition and the establishment of businesses were considered important in early colonisation days. Battye may have written this article to highlight the successes of the Kimberley to the wider Australian public, or to provide an example of a family who is highly profitable in prospering in the Kimberley. The portrayal of Jandamarra in the text is negative, as Battye provides limited information on what occurred, stating he had been responsible for murders, and in the end, \u201ceventually paid the death penalty\u201d. (Battye 1915, p. 123). The point that Battye makes that Blythe received a grant of $100 for capturing Jandamarra can also be linked to achievements of the socio-policies of the time, stressing the fact that the \u201cnatives\u201d are manageable, and will be punished if they come into contact with the non-Indigenous. In regards to Pederson\u2019s text, I agree with Tess\u2019s comment, that \u201cthere is a greater need to emphasis these events objectively\u201d. He also uses words that provoke emotion: \u201cSADLY, there seemed no basis for negotiation...\u201d (Pederson, 1995, p. 184).
\n
\nMy question: Which of our readings do you think provides the clearest outline of the Jandamarra story?","dateCreated":"1301375131","smartDate":"Mar 28, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"kodiebatchelor","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/kodiebatchelor","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36711364","body":"In response to Jade\u2019s question, \u201cDo you think that today\u2019s coverage and reporting of events is done in a balanced way or will our children and grandchildren be criticising our recording of historic events in the future?\u201d
\n
\nI strongly believe that the current coverage and reporting of events is still one sided. It is evident to me that there are many more negative portrayals of Indigenous people out there then there are positive. This influences people\u2019s views of Aboriginal people, and I feel that most non-Indigenous Australians still believe that most Indigenous people have drug and alcohol problems, mental illnesses, and more trouble with the law. There is definitely not enough positive coverage of Indigenous achievements.","dateCreated":"1301375599","smartDate":"Mar 28, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"kodiebatchelor","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/kodiebatchelor","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36712180","body":"Battye (1915) provides a prime example of a text being produced reflecting broader issues with alternative agendas (Muecke 1992). Battye\u2019s extract is relative to his 1915 context and obvious affiliation with the Western perspective of colonisation in the North West. Battye\u2019s (1915) writing technique evokes empathy and admiration towards the Blythe family and their achievements and it is through this empathy that Battye attempts to justify Blythe\u2019s hostility and actions to the Aboriginal people of the North West at the time.
\nI think that Pederson\u2019s motivation for writing about Jundamarra was to represent a perspective on history which had previously been left out. Pederson\u2019s description of Jandamarra- \u201c\u201cJandamarra\u2019s spirit and will to fight on was fading rapidly. The odds were now overwhelming. His country was being invaded by cattlemen and few remained to support the resistance\u201d (1995 p.192) is in sharp contrast to Battye\u2019s description of Aboriginal people being \u201ctroublesome and hostile, spearing the cattle and on occasion attempting the lives of white settlers\u201d (Battye 1915p. 123).
\nJandamarra\u2019s role in history was paramount. Jandamarra\u2019s resistance to colonisation left a legacy of strength, spirit and ultimately truth which evens the Great Australian Silence could not hush.
\nQuestion.
\nDo you think in contemporary times people are more open to the various accounts of history? Do you thing the upcoming Jandamarra play will be accepted as an interpretation of history or criticised?","dateCreated":"1301377914","smartDate":"Mar 28, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"MarciaFriend","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/MarciaFriend","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36791034","body":"
\n
\nIn response to jadedelaney\u2019s question
\nDo you think that today\u2019s coverage and reporting of events is done in a balanced way or will our children and grandchildren be criticising our recording of historic events in the future?
\n
\nI think that accounts of history are always going to contain some bias and all are susceptible to criticism. Evaluations of history are also relative to circumstance so depending on how knowledge and understandings have evolved will also have an influence on how our children and grandchildren will perceive historic events. I also think the increased mediums of communication due to technology will allow for the documentation of more varied and balanced recordings of history.","dateCreated":"1301464370","smartDate":"Mar 29, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"MarciaFriend","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/MarciaFriend","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36862154","body":"Battye\u2019s text was written and constructed in a manner in which the colonisers were portrayed as successful, accomplished \u201cworthy pioneers\u201d. Stressing the vast economic progress the Blythe family were able to achieve in their time they spent in Nth Western Australia, followed by their ability to wed females of \u201cwell known Melbournian backgrounds\u201d. This sort of portrayal distances the reader from the harsh reality Australia\u2019s first people were facing during this period. Battye fails to recognise that the \u201chostile and troublesome natives\u201d were simply acting on natural human instinct and that is to protect their family and territory. Jandamarra or \u201cpigeon\u201d is described as an outlaw and Battye emphasises the 100 pound Government grant received when he is killed. Another approach taken could be one of Howard Pederson\u2019s where he narrates the story of another Aboriginal warrior in "Micki\u201d who actually shot Jandamarra, causing him to plummet 100 ft to his death. It is noted Micki\u2019s role was \u201csuddenly\u201d cast aside, with the white police claiming credit and accolades. Howards socio-political motivation, could be the integral importance of exploring \u201call\u201d avenues when addressing histories. And understanding that this story from Indigenous Australians can be regarded of not just one of a \u201cfreedom fighter\u201d but one that carries many life morals and values integral to the development of their lives.","dateCreated":"1301548947","smartDate":"Mar 30, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"samhesel","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/samhesel","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36862176","body":"My question to you is would it be worthy or deemed important enough to introduce "Jandamarras" story alongside that of Australias non-indigenous "outlaw\/hero" Ned Kelly.
\nI do believe so....","dateCreated":"1301549066","smartDate":"Mar 30, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"samhesel","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/samhesel","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37180472","body":"samhesel Mar 31, 2011 3:24 pm asks:
\n
\nMy question to you is would it be worthy or deemed important enough to introduce "Jandamarras" story alongside that of Australias non-indigenous "outlaw\/hero" Ned Kelly.
\nI do believe so....
\n
\nAnswer:
\n
\nBefore answering, let me quote from the Wikipedia:
\n\u201cWhile X said he was never a chief, he was a military leader. As a Chiricahua Y, this meant he was one of many people with special spiritual insights and abilities known to Y people as "Power". Among these were the ability to walk without leaving tracks; the abilities now known as telekinesis and telepathy; and the ability to survive gunshot (rifle\/musket, pistol, and shotgun). X was wounded numerous times by both bullets and buckshot, but survived. Y men chose to follow him of their own free will, and offered first-hand eye-witness testimony regarding his many "powers". They declared that this was the main reason why so many chose to follow him: they thought he was favored or protected by "Usen", the Y high-god. X's "powers" were considered to be so great that he personally painted the faces of the warriors who followed him to reflect their protective effect.\u201d
\nSound familiar? X=Geronimo, Y=Apache. Geronimo was the \u2018Apache Jandamarra\u2019 and his name is a household word today. I believe he even has a casino named after him in the USA.
\n\u201cNot Just Ned\u201d is the title of an exhibition held recently at the National gallery in Canberra. Its focus was on the contribution of Irish Australians to our history and culture. One of the main exhibits was the \u2018Catapa\u2019 story \u2013 a true life ripping yarn about the escape of 6 Irish political prisoners from Fremantle Gaol in the 1880s and their flight to freedom in the USA, much to the chagrine of the British penal authorities. See http:\/\/www.nma.gov.au\/exhibitions\/irish_in_australia\/building_a_new_life\/slideshow_1_5.html<\/a> for more details. This story is better known in Boston than it is in WA.
\nMy point is that we have lost many of our legends and heroes to other countries because the authorities have done such a good job over the years of suppressing stories they find \u2018embarrassing\u2019. Jandamarra\u2019s story is one of those.
\nI also believe Ned Kelly was a legend and a hero but so was Jandamarra.","dateCreated":"1302064324","smartDate":"Apr 5, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"PeteN","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/PeteN","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1301756613\/PeteN-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37186500","body":"Battye\u2019s excerpt, written during the lifetime of Joe Blythe senior, describes him as a respectable and successful member of the \u2018landed gentry\u2019, an enterprising businessman (having built the first hotel in Derby) and a \u201cworthy pioneer\u201d who well deserved his 100 pounds reward for his involvement in the death of Pidgeon. There is no suggestion here of an organised aboriginal resistance, merely \u201c..natives who were often very troublesome and hostile..\u201d and well deserved the death penalty.
\nPederson on the other hand points out that Blythe was a boyhood friend of John and Alexander Forrest, respectively the first Premier of WA and Lord Mayor of Perth at that time. He goes on to claim that Blythe\u2019s father was involved in the 1834 Pinjarra massacre, giving him a legacy of forceful dispossession of aborigines. Further, he asserts that Blythe was a hypocrite, motivated by \u201ccrazed revenge\u201d for the death of his son Lindsay as well as lust for the land denied him by the \u2018Bunuba Resistance\u2019.
\nPilmer and Idriess both give little credit to Blythe in the final manhunt, more or less confirming that he was something of a \u2018cowboy\u2019 and simply wanted to take credit for the defeat of Jandamarra but had to retire hurt after being shot in the hand by the outlaw. Hence Muecke\u2019s assertion that texts are a product of their time and socio-political demands, as applied to Battye\u2019s piece, is quite apt.
\nOn the other hand, Pederson\u2019s version, written in collaboration with traditional storyteller Banjo Woorunmurra, comes across as much more authentic. Although the style is somewhat florid, it tells the story from both points of view. In the \u2018history wars\u2019, this version would be considered a \u2018radical leftist\u2019 \u2018feminist\u2019 or \u2018black armband\u2019 view, since it gives value to indigenous \u2018verbal history\u2019 and goes some way toward including elements of sorcery and aboriginal spirituality. (As a reader, I would have liked even more of those elements).
\nHaving said that, I do find Pederson\u2019s book to be an excellent contribution to the cause of reconciliation. So to that extent, perhaps Muecke\u2019s assertion does apply here as well.
\n
\nMy question is: Where, in our national psyche, do we draw the line between hero and villain?","dateCreated":"1302086310","smartDate":"Apr 6, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"PeteN","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/PeteN","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1301756613\/PeteN-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37607750","body":"In response to Eagor\u2019s question- What are your thoughts on Jandamarra, hero or villain, and why?
\n
\nMy thoughts on Jandamarra are that he is viewed as hero and villain, depending on which group you listen to. For the Indigenous people and many non-indigenous today his story represents strength, loyalty (although not initially) bravery, courage and a willingness to \u201cfight for your rights, never back down attitude\u201d These attributes can be passed down in stories as a guideline for all walks of life in terms of moral life skill knowledge. For the non-Indigenous people of his time, he was probably, most surely regarded as a villain, a nuisance to the government and its police forces, an outlaw with utter disrespect for the higher powers of the state, with death or capture being the only viable and excepted outcome.","dateCreated":"1302709063","smartDate":"Apr 13, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"samhesel","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/samhesel","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}}],"more":18}]},{"id":"33899802","dateCreated":"1297220538","smartDate":"Feb 8, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"ritarr","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ritarr","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1233888181\/ritarr-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/ab372-572.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/33899802"},"dateDigested":1532175020,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"The History Wars","description":"Keith Windschuttle certainly fired a significant opening salvo in the History Wars in the late 90\u2019s. This conflict has remained a major preoccupation among Australian historians and politicians, particularly those who are interested in researching and writing about our shared past. What is your view of Ryan and Clements reply to Windschuttle\u2019s claim that the history of contact between Indigenous and non Indigenous Australians has been hijacked by left wing radicals who have created a black arm band version of history? That is, a history that denigrates the achievements of the white settlers exaggerates the extent of violent conflict on the frontier and utilises the unreliable testimony of Aboriginal oral history.
\nInclude a question\/issue for other students to respond to in the discussion.
\n
\nRespond to a question posed by another student in their journal entry","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"36217510","body":"I think the way in which Ryan and Clements responded to Windscuttle\u2019s claim was more than sufficient. Looking carefully at history in both written and verbal context is what Ryan and Clements see as, the right way to \u2018\u2026understand it, to come to terms with it, not deny it\u2026\u2019 (Clements, p.26). It is not about creating a black arm band version of history as Windscuttle insist, instead as Ryan points out it is about \u2018\u2026understanding what the frontier was like in the 19th and early 20th centuries.\u2019 (Clements, p.23).
\n
\nWindscuttle believes that history has been fabricated by other historians through misuse of oral records, in the case of Hobb\u2019s version of 300 sheep being killed (Windscuttle). Furthermore, it is accounts such as these in which he also feels the need to be somewhat skeptical of how history is portrayed. However, in Ryan\u2019s defence he also puts forward that Windscuttle is only interested in the right-winged ideologists who see numbers, dates and scientific evidence to be true (Windscuttle), rather than \u2018\u2026engaging with the process of history..\u2019(Ryan, p.22). Consequently in Windscuttle\u2019s case, Clement\u2019s also points out that \u2018\u2026personal beliefs colour the way that individuals perceive and present \u2018evidence about\u2026historical and current events\u2026\u2019.
\n
\nQuestion: Why would early Europeans record large sums of \u2018killings\u2019 of Aboriginal people? If these were recorded, how would it begin to make them look today?
\n
\nJess78 asks the question \u201cHow does Windscuttle\u2019s opinion make you feel?\u201d I have attempted to understand, how Windscuttle\u2019s views of the truth of history have challenged him how he sees history. While I can see why Windscuttle believes that there are those who have apparently given false occurrence of history, I don\u2019t agree with his view of \u2018\u2026history being ruined\u2026\u2019.
\nHe believes that history no-longer becomes relevant in the oral knowledge sense, instead he insist that written knowledge is seen to be more credible to understanding history. Yet, it is in this very nature I think he contradicts himself. He sees written knowledge as the only source which has credible input to history, yet he still doubts the very nature of the source.","dateCreated":"1300694513","smartDate":"Mar 21, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"Tessloan10","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Tessloan10","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36222128","body":"in response to jess's question, how did his comment make me feel?
\nI guess a little dissapointed that someone in a position such as himself, has used it negatively. Causing unneeded pain and shame on peggy patrick and her family. He has also done the reconcilliation process no favours and perhaps prompted many more years of racial divide.
\nMy question is do you think Windshuttle truely believed his own comments or was he simply making statements that he knew would make headlines in the media?","dateCreated":"1300709213","smartDate":"Mar 21, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"samhesel","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/samhesel","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36287018","body":"My view of Ryan and Clements reply to Windschuttles\u2019s claims is that they are right to criticize and that Windschuttle is being dismissive of many important events in our Australian history including the contact between Indigenous and non Indigenous Australians. Whilst there will always remain discrepancies in the stories being told and the recounts of certain historical events it cannot be claimed that Australia\u2019s history has been stamped with a black arm theory that denigrates the achievements of white settlers and exaggerates the extent of violent conflict and uses unreliable testimonies of Aboriginal historians.
\nIt is important that the history of contact between Indigenous and non Indigenous Australians is researched using a variety of sources and genres. Including interviews, filming of sacred sites and massacre sites, written and oral recounts of events by both Indigenous and non Indigenous Australians.
\nAs for Windschuttles\u2019 claims including utilizing unreliable testimonies of Aboriginal oral history, it makes me wonder whether these oral stories have been understood fully and that measures had taken place to ensure an accurate translation as possible. The example of the misunderstanding of who exactly Paddy was referring to when talking about her family is just one example. Had Windschuttle ever considered the different family structure of the Indigenous people and that what white man might consider a sister, mother, brother in the family structure could be different to an Aboriginal person.
\nThe claims by Windschuttle are quite arrogant in the way that they don\u2019t give enough credit to the loss, tragedy and severity of the history. You only need to listen to the elders recount the happenings at Sturt Creek or hear of the Aboriginal people of Wyndham talk about the history of the \u2018Prison Tree\u2019 to understand that these event occurred and that they are significant. How many of these incidences would have been neglected to be accounted for?
\nQn \u2013 Any one account of history is going to be influenced by views and opinions of the author, how many different authors and\/or genres are required make a fair account of history?","dateCreated":"1300763776","smartDate":"Mar 21, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"20083043","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/20083043","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36287326","body":"I liked Jess78's question regarding how Windschuttles claims made me feel. Whilst trying to remain objective throughout the readings I couldn't help but feel anger towards the relatively racist and arrogant claims. To argue the recount of history told by Paddy really stuck a chord. It is ofte that the stories told orally by Indigenous persons are misubderstood and thus ignored or viewed as unreliable. I felt that not respect or regard for the tragedy, loss and trauma of the incident was taken seriously but rather brushed aside as an inconsitent and unreliable reference. This was inhumane of Windschuttle and there is no sense of remorse in his writings.","dateCreated":"1300764240","smartDate":"Mar 21, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"20083043","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/20083043","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36368382","body":"History can and has been expressed in the written and spoken word, film,
\n music, painting, and dance. What Windschuttle is interested in is the written
\n history and he places little or no importance on other forms and in fact sees
\n them as most unreliable. This is a dangerous position to take and will result
\n in much history being hidden from us forever. His responses as shown above are very
\n strong words indeed, basically accusing Ryan and Clement of a hidden agenda.
\n This response is not warranted though one could mount a good argument that he
\n may have a few points worth investigating. Ryan and Clements are accused of
\n what we may call bias. Now all written history of its nature has the aspect of
\n bias within its pages as writers tend to write using the limited sources at
\n their disposal. In other words the success of their work depends on the accuracy
\n of their researched and the personal experience brought to bear on what they
\n write. Their own world view along with the motivation for writing also must
\n have a bearing on the outcome. The final point to make here is that
\n Windschuttle forgets that he may well be writing with a bias which after all is
\n only his point of view - perhaps that whites were the good guys and the blacks
\n were not. Maybe the truth lies somewhere in between.
\n
\n
\n
\nQuestion: Was Windschuttle just playing Devil\u2019s Advocate here or in other
\n words was he just pointing out that there is always another side to every
\n story?","dateCreated":"1300867165","smartDate":"Mar 23, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"20103802","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/20103802","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36369268","body":"Jess asks the question: How do Keith Windschuttle\u2019s opinions make you feel?
\n
\nIt does steer in me certain scepticism due to his negative approach to the aboriginal side of the story of what happened in the past. I guess I have to admit I was even a little annoyed. I can imagine that some Indigenous peoples may be quite upset and even angry at his approach to History.
\nNo one is offended by a fair and well researched critical analysis of histories. However, I agree with Sam who writes \u201cWindschuttle has done the reconciliation process no favours\u201d and in fact may have revealed his attitude of denial which I thought belonged to another age.
\nPeter T","dateCreated":"1300870531","smartDate":"Mar 23, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"20103802","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/20103802","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36576018","body":"
\nRyan and Clement responses to Windschuttles claims will be assessed separately. The two articles differ in tone, structure and content, however there is an evident parallel thread of disdain about Windschuttle\u2019s assertions.
\nClement\u2019s response is the more controlled of the two in refuting Windschuttle\u2019s claims. Her tactic of focussing on one specific event \u2013 the Mistake Creek massacre \u2013 aids in the discussion being brought back to the professional arena.
\nShe has chosen wisely to include details of Windschuttle\u2019s own words and actions to reveal his modus operandaii. For example, when Windschuttle was corrected by O\u2019Brien about Patrick\u2019s age and her reference to her grandparents, he then proceeded to escalate his denigration of Patrick. This response has highlighted an inability on Windschuttle\u2019s behalf to accept correction and change his outlook accordingly. Instead it reveals a man who attacks rather than listens. It shows a person who needs to be correct, rather than right.
\nClement\u2019s list of Windschuttle\u2019s inaccuracies that grew into the myth further displays Windschuttle as a man with an agenda. Just what the agenda is I\u2019m not sure, other than seeking the spotlight for himself. I have to agree with Ryan who suggests \u201cWindschuttle is more interested in promoting a particular ideological position than in engaging with the process of history.\u201d
\nIn general, Ryan\u2019s responses to Windschuttle\u2019s assertions are more unguarded and personally directed. I have to wonder if the title of Ryan\u2019s response \u201cPostcolonialism and the Historian\u201d is a direct opening barb towards Windschuttle. Considering when his voice piece the website www.sydneyline.com states
\n\u201cIt has a low opinion of:
\n\u2022 anything beginning with 'post', especially \u2026. postcolonialism\u201d.
\nRyan calls into question his beliefs, his dual standards and prejudices. She mentions the \u201cgreat theatre\u201d and the \u201cwell-orchestrated campaign\u201d of the History wars. Her response is more charged.
\nSimilar to Clement, Ryan\u2019s review of Windschuttle\u2019s work again causes questions about his agenda and intentions. Ryan clearly highlights Windschuttle\u2019s dual standards by stating \u201cWindschuttle demands an impossible standard of forensic evidence for claims of massacre, and no standard at all for denials\u201d.
\nHis prejudices are revealed in the assertion that \u201cin Windschuttle\u2019s world, Mansell would not have the right to speak as an Aboriginal. To find out about other views of the world, is not on Windschuttle\u2019s agenda.\u201d
\nFinally, Ryan shows Windschuttle\u2019s believes that the left-liberal elite are pushing to create an Aboriginal state.
\nIn conclusion, out of Windschuttle\u2019s beliefs, prejudices and standards have come his various assertions and attacks in the History Wars. By showing these elements Ryan brings doubt as to his agenda and his scrunity in dealing with the facts. It reveals a man with an extreme agenda who uses information to suit his purposes, discredits that which doesn\u2019t fit and extrapolates that which almost does.
\nQ \u2013 Does Windschuttle truly believe his claims (no massacres, no Stolen Generation, etc) or is he just becoming senile?","dateCreated":"1301098986","smartDate":"Mar 25, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"20103879","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/20103879","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36576786","body":"Eagor\u2019s question
\nQuestion: Does having the background knowledge of previous AB units affect your view on Windschuttle?
\n
\nFor me I don\u2019t think previous education on Aboriginal Studies has affected my view of Windschuttle. Basic respect for human beings is something I learnt in my family, not university, and this is something Windschuttle appears to struggle with. Windschuttle\u2019s rudeness towards Patrick is unnecessary. Patrick is different to him, yes, but it appears Windschuttle views \u2018different\u2019 as \u2018inferior\u2019. I find that presumption of superiority very unattractive and would have reacted the same with or without studying at Notre Dame.
\nHis decision to further denigrate Patrick & her family in such public forums further diminishes his standing in my eyes. He would be well aware of the clear and loud voice he has and the limited voice of Patrick. I would expect a civilised, well-educated person to respect that imbalance of power and not further his own political agenda by such small-minded means. Patrick may not use Standard Australian English, but that doesn\u2019t discount the value of her observations or the reality of the story for her and her family.","dateCreated":"1301100705","smartDate":"Mar 25, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"20103879","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/20103879","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37111174","body":"20083043 asks:
\nQn \u2013 Any one account of history is going to be influenced by views and opinions of the author, how many different authors and\/or genres are required make a fair account of history?
\n
\nTrue. What makes history is the most persistent version of events. Therefore, the more versions there are, the more likely it is that one pure version will eventually emerge. It follows that there should be no limits to the search for a fair history.","dateCreated":"1301975574","smartDate":"Apr 4, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"PeteN","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/PeteN","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1301756613\/PeteN-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37111260","body":"My question is: John Howard lost his government and his seat because of his inability to accept shared history. What has Winschuttle et al got to lose?","dateCreated":"1301975846","smartDate":"Apr 4, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"PeteN","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/PeteN","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1301756613\/PeteN-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37176356","body":"of 2007, but the war rages on.
\nNor has the \u2018Cult\u2019 been totally silenced. Windschuttle continues to editorialise in Quadrant and still sits on the board of the ABC. As recently as 26 March 2011, The Weekend Australian published an extract of Gary Johns\u2019 book \u201cAboriginal Self-Determination: The Whiteman\u2019s Dream\u201d in which the author, apparently a card-carrying cultist, suggests that, prior to the arrival of the whiteman, Aborigines did not prosper, but merely survived. He lays into the \u201cintelligentsia\u201d and the \u201cpolitical Left\u201d who for the past 40 years have maintained that what Aborigines lost was more valuable than the opportunities offered by white civilisation and he yearns for a return to the era of assimilation.
\nJohns asserts that in the past, an Aborigine who never learned to hunt or refused to hunt could not expect to be fed and cared for. This shows an amazing ignorance of traditional social structures. He further maintains that \u201c(T)he political strategy to idealise Aboriginal culture and use it as the glue to rekindle a sense of worth among Aborigines is the reason many..fail to embrace modern society and feel resentful of its gifts\u201d. He concludes that \u201c(T)hose who wrote ceaselessly in defence of the indefensible killed Aborigines just as surely as any redneck grazier of the 19th century\u201d.
\nWhat Johns, Windschuttle and others refuse to accept is that in global terms it is relatively recently that Aborigines were dispossessed of their lands and their sovereignty by white \u2018civilisation\u2019. They also tend to forget that it is a fundamental principle of any civilisation that the strong take care of the weak and vulnerable. Finally, they fail to acknowledge that many aboriginal enterprises have succeeded in becoming self-sufficient since the introduction of Native Title, while those involved have continued their community lifestyles and to maintain traditional cultural practices.","dateCreated":"1302057099","smartDate":"Apr 5, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"PeteN","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/PeteN","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1301756613\/PeteN-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"37176660","body":"In his journalistic battles with Ryan and Clements and more recently Robert Manne, Keith Windschuttle is shown to not only employ dubious historic research techniques but also to be a high priest of the \u2018Cult of Forgetfulness\u2019. In my view, it was no accident that the \u2018wars\u2019 broke out at the time when Australia was gearing up for the 2000 Summer Olympic Games, Aboriginal activists were threatening to capture the world stage with monumental protests and the Howard government was declaring multiculturalism a failed experiment. That government was defeated in the electoral battle of 2007, but the war rages on.","dateCreated":"1302057384","smartDate":"Apr 5, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"PeteN","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/PeteN","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1301756613\/PeteN-lg.jpg"}}],"more":17}]},{"id":"33899756","dateCreated":"1297220481","smartDate":"Feb 8, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"ritarr","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ritarr","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1233888181\/ritarr-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/ab372-572.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/33899756"},"dateDigested":1532175021,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Whose Truth? Whose History?","description":"From your reading and the reflections you are encouraged to reflect on and develop an informed understanding of the nature of history. What is your interpretation of the importance and value of shared histories as an instrument in knowing who we are as Australians?
\n
\nInclude a question\/issue for other students to respond to in the discussion.
\n
\nRespond to a question posed by another student in their journal entry.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"35808180","body":"In response to Jess78 question about \u2018...how can oral histories be given academic credibility..\u2019?
\n
\nI believe that oral history is just as reliable source as written. I say this because it is commonly known that written knowledge of history depicts one perspective of these historical accounts. But who\u2019s to say that early writer\u2019s of history did not alter these perspectives, to suit the worldview of these times or to grab widespread attention for personal reasons.
\n
\nSo, \u2018how can oral histories be given academic credibility?\u2019, I believe this lies in exposure. If there is more exposure of telling two versions of account in history, then there is greater chance of weighing up the truth in a credible sense. History shouldn\u2019t be about confusing people of who\u2019s telling the truth, it should be more about shared input and shared acknowledgment.","dateCreated":"1300072443","smartDate":"Mar 13, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"Tessloan10","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Tessloan10","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"35812104","body":"In response to Liv S question Is it important that we, as a society, look to rebalance the shift between the mainstream version of our past and the Indigenous versions of our past. Why?
\n
\nIt is definetly important to rebalance the shift between mainstream and indigenous versions of our past if we are continue the process of reconciliation as a nation and keep moving foward. It is important for our children and the generations to come to understand our shared history and the real events that took place. As a society we continually agree with common attitudes and values and this is certainly the case with our history.","dateCreated":"1300083563","smartDate":"Mar 13, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"eagor","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/eagor","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"35812388","body":"In response to Eagor's question: Why do you think Australia\u2019s attitude towards our history has shifted in recent years?
\n
\nIn recent years, we have seen a strengthening of Indigenous voices who speak of the past and of the injustices that Aboriginal people have been subjected to since colonisation. We have also seen different ways of communicating these injustices - via music, art or photography.Through these outlets of media, I think that Indigenous perspectives are slowly becoming more accepeted and "mainstream" in Australia, which is may have an influence on the way non-Indigenous perceive history.","dateCreated":"1300085086","smartDate":"Mar 13, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"kodiebatchelor","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/kodiebatchelor","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"35814050","body":"The importance and value of shared histories is significant for various reasons.
\n
\nFirst, the Euro centric interpretation of Australian history as reflected in mainstream historical commentary and in the popular media needs to be challenged if progress in changing predominantly stereotypical thinking is to occur. As Stanner observed the role ( and experience)of Aboriginal people in Australian history was at best considered marginal and at worst irrelevant to the dominant narrative of Australian events. Indeed, upon Federation, the embodiment of Australian nationalism was unashamedly focused on achieving racial homogeneity (White Australia). Such a limited historical perspective leads inevitably to an unbalanced and therefore biased view of the Australian story. To the extent that Aboriginal perspectives of these events are included puts a sharper focus on the shortcomings of the Euro centric version and invites further enquiry.
\n
\nSecondly, by sharing history there is a wider opportunity to tap a richer vein of knowledge, and through it to develop a deeper understanding of the potential for the development of Australian society. We form judgements on the basis of a received and developed set of values. Understanding a shared history introduces the possibility of testing and refining our value systems.
\nHowever the notion of "shared histories"might also suggest a meeting of minds. The question comes whether it can be said that history is truly shared, other than the presentation and the evaluation of alternative views of the same events. Are we not more accurately speaking of a wider sourced non exclusionary history in order to form a more nuanced and complete sense of our country's past?
\n
\nThirdly, there seems little dispute that the discovery of historical truth might be advanced by using multiple sources (art , poetry,drama). This suggests that ways of thinking might also be "ways of seeing" ,that is other insights into our shared humanity.
\n
\nFinally a shared history offers opportunities for new questions of each other and of the past which might provide a source of reconciliation in our community. In other words, how might we "walk in someones shoes" if we do not have an understanding of how that person views the world ?
\n
\nQuestion: How might the study of Aboriginal history be advanced as an essential component of Australian student's curricula?
\n
\nIn response to Kodie's question. i think that the current attitude to Australian history in general is shaped by popular media rendering of some notable events (ie Anzac) which is often shallow and otherwise it is marked by its absence. The recent history wars are also evidence of a polarising of views among historians and the wider media which devalues open historical enquiry. I think many Australian's would be open to the idea of a shared history, as there is widely held but poorly channelled interest in Indigenous matters.","dateCreated":"1300093075","smartDate":"Mar 14, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"andrew.m1","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/andrew.m1","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"35965518","body":"I found it useful to think about history telling on a micro level as suggested by Jade. I think if I needed to choose someone to write a history of my life it would be more likely to be a researcher then someone who knows me as they could research widely on those who have influenced\/ been influenced\/ been a part of my life and form an objective recount. I think having someone who isn\u2019t as emotionally involved but instead gains all their knowledge from having an open mind and listening to the varying perspectives of what happened in my life. Although this doesn\u2019t provide a direct answer to how accounts of history should be constructed and presented in Australia as most people are in some way or other connected to the past, it does support the idea that for an accurate portrayal of history multiple perspectives are useful.","dateCreated":"1300262566","smartDate":"Mar 16, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"MarciaFriend","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/MarciaFriend","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36177948","body":"
\nI believe both Ryan and Clements produced articulate, convincing arguments in response to Windschuttles attitude regarding Australian history. Ryan and Clements both coherently disputed Windshuttles claims of Australian history being documented incorrectly, \u2018fabricating\u2019 experiences of Aboriginal people and using unreliable testimonies of history such as Aboriginal oral history. Windschuttle believes this exaggeration of history discredits Australia\u2019s achievements and his work therefore aims to \u201ccast doubts in the minds of ordinary Australians about the significance of frontier conflict\u201d (Ryan 2001 p. 21). Ryan (2001) eloquently describes Windschuttle\u2019s mantra as \u201cdemanding an impossible standard for forensic evidence for claims of massacre, and no standard at all for denials\u201d. I find it interesting that Windschuttle\u2019s work shows such ignorance as he dismisses accounts of history out right without considering its possibilities. This is sharply contrasted by Clements (2003) work which states that \u201ceach of the contested episodes of frontier conflict must be examined in its own right if the validity of the larger claim is to be fully tested\u201d (p. 67), clearly a superior researching technique. Ryan also showed maturity in her writing as she does not expect Windschuttle to agree with exact figures in relation to massacres but simply some recognition that there are multiple interpretations of history. My view is that both Clements and Ryan offer more to the discussion\/ debate about Australia\u2019s history as they keep the dialogue alive by backing up statements with reason and evidence.","dateCreated":"1300606357","smartDate":"Mar 20, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"MarciaFriend","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/MarciaFriend","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36177952","body":"In response to Emma\u2019s question:
\nCan Windschuttle's arguement be boiled down to a case of threatened identity or could there be another motive in pushing his agenda?
\nAlthough my knowledge of alternative motives behind the history wars is extremely limited I do know that Macintyre and Clarke (2003) suggested that the history wars are said to be a reflection of broader issues with alternative political agendas. From what I understand there is a political division. Historians taking the mind set of multiple interpretations and shared histories are seen by some (perhaps such as Windschuttle) as \u201cprivileged intellectual parasites- former 1960\u2019s and 1970\u2019s radicals renowned for the anti- establishment antics during this era.. (now) pursuing the same agenda as they did in their student days but in a much more sinister form \u201c . People such as Windschuttle are described by Macintyre and Clarke as \u2018history warriors\u2019.
\nDoes this situation emphasise the need for education to be accessible for all despite their social position?","dateCreated":"1300606376","smartDate":"Mar 20, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"MarciaFriend","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/MarciaFriend","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36464348","body":"Shared histories are essential for a balance identity as a nation. Their value and importance cannot be underestimated.
\nThe presence of a shared history allows us to understand those who may have once been our adversaries. It allows us to understand the others\u2019 perspectives, without necessarily agreeing with it. It allows us to say what might be too difficult to speak, and to hear what might be inexpressible. It allows a voice to the otherwise oppressed.
\nTypically Australian History like the wider Australian society has excluded the indigenous perspective, and so perpetuates \u2018the great Australian silence\u2019 as labelled by W E H Stanner. However, for our nation to grow in her identity we must recognise and accept who we are. This needs to include representations of all who share our history - Indigenous, the non-indigenous, recent immigrants, first settlers, government officials, religious clergy. In developing a healthy, accurate and balanced self-image as a nation we need to know where we have come from. The words so succinctly spray-painted across the base of the new Australian Parliament building in 1988 are as pertinent now as then.
\n\u201cWhite Australia has a Black History<\/strong>\u201d.
\n(http:\/\/www.nla.gov.au\/nla\/staffpaper\/thomp.html<\/a>)
\nAs a nation, we must continue to understand and incorporate that history into our national conscience.
\n
\nOn a personal level, the concept of a \u2018shared history\u2019 brings hope to me. Ironic, considering that hope is not an emotion usually associated with Indigenous Australian History. Somehow though, the concept of a \u2018shared history\u2019 allows me to believe there is space for this in the collective Australian psyche and maybe\u00b8 now we are ready as a nation - ready to embrace the awkward and inconvenient shades of grey, legitimate variations and the outright differences of opinions and accounts.
\nThe concept of shared histories requires a number of parties to be heard, represented and understood (hopefully!), not just the victors of the wars. More importantly, it allows other parties to be heard in ways that they chose, and not only within the victor\u2019s continuing constraints.
\nI look forward to the day when Australian Indigenous culture and history is viewed with pride, value and respect. Moreso, when the culture is respected not only generally across the nation, but repeatedly on numerous specific local levels across the nation.
\n
\nQ: How is reconciliation linked with the concept of shared history<\/strong>?","dateCreated":"1300978907","smartDate":"Mar 24, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"20103879","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/20103879","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36464356","body":"Shared histories are essential for a balance identity as a nation. Their value and importance cannot be underestimated.
\nThe presence of a shared history allows us to understand those who may have once been our adversaries. It allows us to understand the others\u2019 perspectives, without necessarily agreeing with it. It allows us to say what might be too difficult to speak, and to hear what might be inexpressible. It allows a voice to the otherwise oppressed.
\nTypically Australian History like the wider Australian society has excluded the indigenous perspective, and so perpetuates \u2018the great Australian silence\u2019 as labelled by W E H Stanner. However, for our nation to grow in her identity we must recognise and accept who we are. This needs to include representations of all who share our history - Indigenous, the non-indigenous, recent immigrants, first settlers, government officials, religious clergy. In developing a healthy, accurate and balanced self-image as a nation we need to know where we have come from. The words so succinctly spray-painted across the base of the new Australian Parliament building in 1988 are as pertinent now as then.
\n\u201cWhite Australia has a Black History<\/strong>\u201d.
\n(http:\/\/www.nla.gov.au\/nla\/staffpaper\/thomp.html<\/a>)
\nAs a nation, we must continue to understand and incorporate that history into our national conscience.
\n
\nOn a personal level, the concept of a \u2018shared history\u2019 brings hope to me. Ironic, considering that hope is not an emotion usually associated with Indigenous Australian History. Somehow though, the concept of a \u2018shared history\u2019 allows me to believe there is space for this in the collective Australian psyche and maybe\u00b8 now we are ready as a nation - ready to embrace the awkward and inconvenient shades of grey, legitimate variations and the outright differences of opinions and accounts.
\nThe concept of shared histories requires a number of parties to be heard, represented and understood (hopefully!), not just the victors of the wars. More importantly, it allows other parties to be heard in ways that they chose, and not only within the victor\u2019s continuing constraints.
\nI look forward to the day when Australian Indigenous culture and history is viewed with pride, value and respect. Moreso, when the culture is respected not only generally across the nation, but repeatedly on numerous specific local levels across the nation.
\n
\nQ: How is reconciliation linked with the concept of shared history<\/strong>?","dateCreated":"1300978910","smartDate":"Mar 24, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"20103879","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/20103879","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36526756","body":"Early history, and more specifically Western Australian history, was created by people writing about the journeys and experiences of famous explorers such as Grey and Forrest. The writing was certainly influenced by the dominant society in which these writers belong - Battye is a good example of this as he writes as part of the British colonialism which was in full swing in the early days and white supremacy was the dominant mind set. This would govern to a large extent how the natives were treated and how they in turn treated the intruders. Fear of the unknown was real though it was overcome by the desire of these early explorers to be first to discovers these new worlds. Explorers were the heroes of their day. Brave men though they be they knew little about the country they trespassed and the people they met. This kind of history belonged to the Europeans and was written for their own kind. The history the natives recognised was that handed down from generations to generation through the spoken word, dance, paintings and song. True written history is history that is shared history which would include all points of view and all ways of expressing the life\u2019s great story.
\nQuestion: Does Edwards get close to this concept of shared history in his writings?","dateCreated":"1301043991","smartDate":"Mar 25, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"20103802","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/20103802","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36998712","body":"In his 1999 book 'Why Weren't We Told?\u2019 historian Henry Reynolds sets out to come to terms with the truth about Australia\u2019s colonial past and to debunk some of the misinformation he received in his Tasmanian upbringing. I can well identify with his position, having been born and brought up in 1950s\/60s Adelaide. We considered ourselves very egalitarian in SA in those days, but we were in fact deeply ignorant of the ways of the rest of the country.
\nWhen I moved to Perth in 1980, I was shocked at the blatant racism that prevailed and assumed that it must be because there were a lot more indigenous people in the WA community and racial tension was consequently much higher. After a while, I realized that it was much more sinister than that \u2013 that it was a result of a history of institutional racism that still prevails today and effectively gives ordinary white West Australians tacit permission to be racist when it suits them.
\nIn his 2009 book \u2018Australians \u2013 Origins to Eureka\u2019, author Thomas Kenneally refers to European discovery of Australia as \u2018the grand intrusion\u2019 and goes to some lengths to chronicle the aboriginal \u2018resistance\u2019 to white \u2018Invasion\u2019. He does however admit that his is not an exhaustive history, more an inclusive insight into \u201cat least some of the mysteries of the Australian Soul\u201d. This work is engagingly written and is therefore likely to become a modern Australian classic \u2013 a \u2018popular history\u2019.
\nMy question is: What is the role of the novelist in making \u2018history\u2019?","dateCreated":"1301746111","smartDate":"Apr 2, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"PeteN","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/PeteN","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1301756613\/PeteN-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"36998810","body":"Tessloan10 asked: Question: Does the truth in history depend on whose telling the historical account or does it depend on who\u2019s listening or reading?
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\nAnswer: Both. It is often said (by me as well as others) that history is written by the winners. That is only partly true. I think what ends up being 'history' is the most 'persistent' version of events. This persistency may result from the engaging manner in which it is told or the receptiveness of the particular audience.","dateCreated":"1301746932","smartDate":"Apr 2, 2011","userCreated":{"username":"PeteN","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/PeteN","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1301756613\/PeteN-lg.jpg"}}],"more":16}]}],"more":false},"comments":[]},"http":{"code":200,"status":"OK"},"redirectUrl":null,"javascript":null,"notices":{"warning":[],"error":[],"info":[],"success":[]}}